Sex Movies FAQ

Frequently Asked Questions about Sex Movies

This FAQ about Sex Movies was compiled and written by director@gti.net (The Director) with numerous contributions by others.

0 Welcome to alt.sex.movies!: alt.sex.movies is a USENET newsgroup dedicated to the ...

1 Introduction: Adult movies (aka, porn flicks, stag films, etc.) were born ...

2 Copyright and other necessary stuff: *********** Notice to Spaghetti Publishers ********...

3 How to get this FAQ: To get the latest FAQ by anonymous FTP:...

4 Welcome to alt.sex.movies!: This section of the FAQ is meant just to get you acquainted with ...

5 I can't get alt.sex.movies and my news admin won't carry it!: This is a tough spot to be in, and while I can get you access to ...

6.3 How do I get the latest version of the faq?: The faq is posted approximately once a month to alt.censorship,...

6 Who we are...: We're pretty cool. We don't make trouble, we just like to watch porn....

7 How popular we are...: A big Abigail Clayton reverse cowgirl thanks to ...

8 What we're all about...: alt.sex.movies is a USENET newsgroup dedicated to the intelligent ...

9 What we're not...: We're not a place to find or post binaries of movies you can watch ...

9.1 What are the appropriate binaries groups?: There's a whole slew of USENET groups dedicated to movies or ...

10 What's a GIF? MPEG? JPG? DL?: There are a bunch of different ways to store graphics on a computer....

11 Is there an alt.sex.movies IRC channel?: Yes. We confer on the Undernet on Wednesday nights at 8 PM ...

12 Glossary: 69 (sixty-nine): ...

13 Welcome to Part 2: Welcome to the newbie part of our show, where we'll be examining ...

14.1 What is USENET?: USENET is a distributed bulletin board system that is not ...

14.2 What is netiquette?: USENET is an anarchic society of people talking about things ...

14.3 How to join a Usenet group: It's simple. Just start reading. Read for a couple weeks. ...

14.4 Fear and Loathing @ AOL.COM: America OnLine does not seem to hold a special place in anyone'...

14.5 What's a newbie? Is that bad?: A newbie is a person who is new to the 'Net. It is not bad in ...

15 What else is there to know?: A few things will help you on your way down the alt.sex.movies highway. ...

15.1 What do I call my post?: Every message needs a subject. Nothing is more frustrating ...

15.2 What should my posts look like?: * YOUR POSTS SHOULD NOT LOOK LIKE THIS. THIS IS NOT THE WAY ...

15.3 Who do I respond to?: Communication is pretty dull if only one person does all ...

15.4 Where do I put my John Hancock?: Always use a signature if you can: make sure it identifies who ...

15.5 Mind my manners? Eat me!: We were taught to be nice to people when we were young, and we ...

16 Inappropriate Postings: Since there are so many groups in the USENET hierarchy, some readers ...

16.1 Spam: Any message posted to more than 20 groups is spam. Most spams are off-...

17.1 Welcome to alt.test: Something's wrong. But what? Could it be your newsfeed is down?...

17.2 Meet your Systems Administrator: If you are connected to the net through a college or other ...

17.2.1 But I'm not at a college or large business!: Then you probably are accessing the net though a BBS,...

18 I don't have Web Access, what can I do to access some of the Web based services on the net?: You're in luck! Almost every feature available to Internet users ...

19.1 How can I become a porn star?: Zeno makes these observations......

19.1.1 That's not very encouraging... I really want to do it. Tell mehow.: It is considerably easier for females. Jim South at ...

19.2 What's all this talk about licensed agents?: Nick Long (NICKLONG@delphi.com) says: Agents are licensed ...

19.2.1 So, who are the agents?: Nick Long provides us with this easy to use chart. ...

19.2.2 Do you think I need an agent?: Not necessarily, but it doesn't hurt. Nick Long tells me ...

19.3 OK... How about getting into gay porn?: This is what Tim Evanson has to tell me... ...

19.3.1 Are there any secrets to gay porn success?: Tim Evanson tells me that gay porn is caught up by fads. ...

19.4 How much do porn stars make?: Jerry Butler in his book Raw Talent discussed the inequity of ...

19.5 How much do porn directors make?: This is a tough call, and no tried and true answer holds. ...

19.6 What I really want to do is direct!: S. Andrew Roberts (shamu@kbbsnet.com), our editor behind-the-...

19.7 So, maybe mainstream is not where I want to be... would you tell me about amateur?: Amateur is a stepping stone for actors more than directors, ...

19.7.1 What kind of budgets to amateur productions have?: I believe the average pro video has a budget in the 12-15,...

19.7.2 What kind of equipment do I need?: As far as equipment goes, a Hi-8 camera is probably best. You ...

19.7.3 What about editing?: When I was editing my post-college short vid on 3/4 U-Matic ...

19.7.4 What about legal issues?: Ah, the curse of the pornographer.. Johnny Law....

19.8 Okay, so maybe directing is not the thing to do... who writes the songs that those people fuck to?: Brandy sez:...

19.9 Are there any books I can read about the subject of pornproduction?: There are few books written about the porn industry and ...

19.10 How much can I make if I write adult movie scripts?: According to Brandy Alexandre, 99% of the director's write ...

20.1 If it is so hard to be in adult movies, why do actors and actresses enter the business at all?: Most are actors who didn't make it into the big time. ...

20.2 So porn stars tend to like their work?: It's hard to tell. ...

20.2.1 Stacey Donovan hates porn?: Well, let's just say she did testify in front of the ...

20.3 Why do we always see men orgasm, but hardly ever see the women orgasm?: Nick Long says:...

20.4 How long do actors stay in the business of making videos?: It varies wildly. Directors stay a long time, because it tends ...

20.5 Why do men last for years in the business, when women seem to last only a few months?: (This answer is slanted towards hetero porn-viewers.)...

20.6 How do you know when a performer has retired?: To paraphrase critic bill caits, the only porn stars ...

20.7 Are there actors turned directors?: Sure are. While some actors supplement their income by ...

20.8 How long does it take to make a adult video?: Brandy Alexandre says:...

20.9 How long are porn scripts?: S. Andrew Roberts, an editor out there in pornland, says that some ...

20.10 Sales and other related figures...

20.10.1 What is considered a big success?: In bondage and fetish anything over the 1,000 units. I ...

20.10.2 What's the all time best-sellers?: Well Ninn's Latex seems on its way there, The John ...

20.10.3 After completing a project how much would a producer receive from a distributor? I assume they sell all rights and raw footage.: This assumption is wrong. Very few producers just ...

20.10.4 How much does a distributor wholesale the video to a retailer for?: Ah, the heart of the business. First you have two levels of ...

20.10.5 Perhaps you could differentiate between amateurs and features - shot on video or shot on film. Bottom line - where's the profit made!: Bottom line, profit is VERY hard to make in this ...

20.11 What frustrates an editor most?: S. Andrew tells us it's not all fun and games on a porn shoot: ...

20.12 I have a dickens of a time knowing who's who in a porn film. Why can't everyone put a picture to a face like Rinse Dream did in Party Doll a-Go-Go?: Brandy says:...

20.13 Why is the sound so bad?: T.H. Royal tells me that the budget, (or the lack of it) is ...

20.14 How do you shoot and/or edit softcore footage?: S. Andrew Roberts, our editor in the field, tells us that ...

21 Definition of Terms: Porno v. Just Plain Naked: It is important at this point to discuss the difference ...

22.1 Have any of the stars written books?: In fact, yes. Jerry Butler, Jack Wrangler and ...

22.2 Have any New York Times best-sellers ever been made into adult films?: As far as I know, only one: 1975's Naked Came ...

22.3 Does the porn industry have an awards show?: Yes it does. The Adult Video News (AVN) awards are ...

22.4.1 Can I get tickets to the various award shows? Adult Video NewsAwards: Well, if next year's is like this year's (and ...

22.4.2 Can I get tickets to the various award shows? Gay Video Guide: As far as the GVG show goes, Tim Evanson ...

22.4.3 Can I get tickets to the various award shows? F.O.X.E. (Fansof X-Rated Entertainment): The 6th F.O.X.E. Awards Show will be held Sunday,...

22.5 Did Ed Powers get into some sort of fight at the 1994 AVN award show (held in January 1995)?: Peter van Aarle quotes the March 1995 gossip column ...

22.6.1 Adult Video News Awards: A totally subjective editing of the 1995 Adult Video ...

22.6.2 Gay Video Guide Awards: The 1994 winners of the Gay Video Guide Dickies ...

22.7 Who owns the porn studios?: Blowfish says:...

22.8 Why do porn babes wear shoes all the damned time?: In almost all the sex scenes, the women are ...

22.9 Is my dick smaller than a porn star's?: Zeno observes:...

22.10 Where can I buy a pair of tits that big?: This is a very frequently asked question, and I think ...

22.10.1 So do people like fake tits?: There is a bit of backlash against fake tits in ...

22.11 Who do so many porn starlets shave their nether regions?: Nick Long says:...

22.12 How do porn stars handle birth control on sets?: As I understand it, (in no order) the vaginal sponge, the ...

22.13 How do porn stars prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases?: Condoms mostly, and an HIV test every three months....

22.14 Were there really 251 men at that gangbang?: There was recently quite a lot of noise generated ...

22.14.1 Is there going to be a sequel?: Yes. Peter van Aarle and N Smith both told me ...

22.15 At the "World's Largest Gangbang," there were a bunch of fluffers. Are fluffers normal on porn sets?: Not anymore. On a regular one-day wonder, you ...

22.16 Are there books on the history of gay porn?: Tim Evanson passes along this book and review that ...

23 Celebrities who did (?) porn and their stories: There are all sorts of people who are rumored to have been in porn --...

23.1 Has Marina Sirtis done any pornos?: No! No! No! No! No! For the millionth time, no!...

23.2 Did anyone from Star Trek do porn?: David Anderson (lando5@iii1.iii.net) & Gordon (ggs@netcom.com) both ...

23.2.1 Anyone Else?: Tim Evanson tells me that a gay porn star did appear in an ...

23.3 Do the Brady Girls Swallow?: I don't know... maybe they spit, but I can tell you they've ...

23.4 Where can I get that Tonya Harding porno tape?: The porno tape movie was not taken during a their honeymoon ...

23.5 Did "Opie Get Laid?": Not on film he didn't......

23.6 What about Sticks the Drummer from "Happy Days"?: Yes, the actor that played Sticks, Jack Baker, made the ...

23.7 Did Barbra Streisand ever do a porno?: From: an68050@anon.penet.fi (Dark Man)...

23.8 Now, didn't Stallone make a porno? A friend of a friend saw it...: All sources confirm that Stallone appeared in a film called ...

23.9 What about that cute Brazilian kiddie-show host, Xuxa?: Hate to break it to ya, but again, no, she never did a porn film. ...

23.10 How about now-pudgy psychic shill Jayne Kennedy?: Jayne Kennedy has indeed been caught on tape in ...

23.11 Did I hear right? The Go-Gos appear nude in a tape?: No, they don't. Again, I have not seen the tape, but to the ...

23.12 What about Baywatchable babe Pamela Anderson Lee?: No, no, no, no! Don't you spot a trend here?...

23.13 What about Dana Plato?: Nope. She appeared in Playboy a few years ago, and that was ...

23.14 What about Teri Hatcher?: Nope. The star of Lois & Clark appeared nude in the R-Rated ...

23.15 How about Alyssa Milano?: Again, Alyssa (the plain-jane daughter on Who's the Boss ...

23.16 How about MTV VJ Simon Rex?: Yes, it's true. Simon Rex, MTV VJ, has appeared in 3 solo jack ...

24 Porn Stars and their Stories...: Here's the low down on some of porn's biggest (and most infamous)...

24.1 Are there any famous porn people on the net?: Why, yes there are! In fact, there are several! Peter van ...

24.2 Are we taken seriously by the industry professionals?: I think we are taken as seriously as fan mail. Well, allow me ...

24.3 Who is Paul Thomas and why don't we like him?: Paul Thomas (also known informally as PT), a big star in 70's ...

24.3.1 Was PT in Jesus Christ Superstar?: Yes. Paul Thomas appeared in the film version of the ...

24.4 Have any porn stars died?: Sure. Time marches on and people pass away. Sadly inevitable,...

24.5 Is Nikki Dial or Joey Silvera or Lana Woods or Talia James or Patti Petite or Taija Rae dead?: No. Rumors of these stars deaths appear every so often, and as ...

24.6 How did Savannah die?: Allow me to quote Adult Video News. I have edited this for length. ...

24.7 How did Joey Stefano die?: There are great reviews of Joey Stefano's life and work in ...

24.8 How did Michel Richaud die?: Michel Richaud, one of Europe's top porn directors of the ...

24.9 Who is Traci Lords and why is she famous?: Traci Lords is famous because she entered the business (and ...

24.9.1 Where can I get Traci Lords' movies?: Except for Traci I Love You (and the compilations made ...

24.9.2 How come Traci's movies are available in Quebec?: Alain Bourassa tells me that ONLY the original releases ...

24.10 Was that Ashlyn Gere on The X-Files?: Sure was... One of the producers of the show is an X-Rated ...

24.10.1 Isn't she on "Space: Above and Beyond" as well?: The producers of the X-Files liked her so much (...

24.11 Are there other crossovers from porn to movies?: One poster says that Roxanne Blaze now appears in B-Movies as ...

24.12 Is there a crossover from porn to politics?: Imperator says: Funny you should ask! Of course, in the ...

24.12.1 Isn't there more than politics to Cicciolina?: Why yes. As well as being a member of Italian parliament,...

24.13 Is Teri Weigel famous for something other than humping?: Teri is famous for being Playboy's April 1986 playmate and ...

24.14 Are there other crossovers from Playboy or Penthouse to porn?: Sure. The most famous come from Penthouse. Traci Lords, ...

24.15 Did Tiffany Million ever wrestle?: A fellow FAQ-keeper passes this along:...

24.16 Alexandria Quinn -- legal or not?: Well, half and half......

24.17 Are there other underage porn performers?: In addition to Traci Lords and Alexandria Quinn, there are a ...

24.18 Has Victoria Paris or Traci Lords or Candi Evans or Nikki Dial ever taken it in the ass?: None but one......

24.19 Does Linda Lovelace hate porn?: Linda Lovelace (real name Linda Marsciano, who starred in ...

24.20 Did any other porn stars denounce the business?: The I Hate Porn, even though I was a Star! syndrome has ...

24.21 What's the deal with Peter North?: Peter is the subject of two long running debates in the group. ...

24.22 Does Janine Lindemulder just do girls?: In a word, yes. On film anyway. According to a faithful ...

24.22.1 Janine has a boyfriend?: Well, not exactly......

24.23 What movie has that ice dildo scene?: Chances are, that would be Andrew Blake's Hidden Obsessions ...

24.24 Have any of the porn people mentioned the net in their work?: Patrick Collins sent regards to the alt.sex movies [sic] group ...

24.25 Who are Rex Borsky and Jackson St. Louis?: A long time ago there was a brilliant director named Alex DeRenzy. ...

24.26 Who is in Anabolic's Gang Bang Girls series?: Normally, I would not put a cast list in the FAQ, but this is ...

25.1 Are there alt.sex.movies related Web sites?: Sure! ...

25.2 Heretic's Adult Movie Database: Ron Heretic Wilhelm, with Peter van Aarle's data, has ...

25.3 The Movie Database (mistakenly referred to as Cardiff): Frans Postma (Frans@frp.idn.nl) asked me to add this bit on ...

25.4 Where can I get "The Bare Facts?": Craig Hosoda (chosoda@barefacts.com), the author of the Bare ...

25.5 Are there any gay resources on the 'Net?: Tim Evanson tells me that there are no gay databases on-...

25.6 Where'd Videosan go?: He wrote in alt.sex.movies:...

26.1 Adult Video News (AVN): Adult Video News is the trade magazine of the porn industry. It ...

26.2 Adam Film World (AFW) and its gay counterpart, XXX Gay Video Showcase and its niche counterpart, Adam Black Video Illustrated: Adam Film World is another magazine solely devoted to x-...

26.3 Hustler Erotic Video Guide (HEVG): Hustler Erotic Video Guide is yet another magazine solely ...

26.4 Video Xcitement: Many of the industry insiders (Sky Henderson, Dirty Bob, Nick Long,...

26.5 Gay Video Guide (GVG): For gay videos, the premiere magazine is Gay Video Guide, a ...

26.6 Manshots: The other best guide to gay video is the bi monthly ...

26.7 Are there other sources for film reviews?: Reviews of recent films may also be found in almost any ...

27 Got any good FTP sites?: To understand FTP is to understand networking. In a nutshell, ...

27.1 Some guy posts a list of FTP sites every now and then...: Yeah, I know... The guy is Mistress Blanca and Peter (Green Way)...

27.2 I got 127.0.0.1 Is that a good one?: Only if you got good stuff on your machine. 127.0.0.1 is ...

28.1 Are Dixie Dynamite's tits real?: Uh, no....

28.2 Are those 18" dicks real?: Nope. They're plastic....

28.3 Do those guys really have two dicks?: No. They're plastic. And that guy doesn't have dicks for ...

28.4 Are hermaphrodites real?: There are hermaphrodites in biological cases, but they are known ...

29 X, XXX... What happened to XX?: Back in the 1960s, the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA)...

29.1 So XXX is hotter than X? Not really.: Can you say marketing? When the X was getting overused, what ...

30.1 Where can I get some of this stuff?: The following companies come recommended by members of the ...

30.1.1 Tell me more about mail order, please.: Brad Williams passes this along:...

30.1.2 Tell me about Excalibur and their return policies...: Excalibur Films has a policy where you can return films ...

30.1.3 I've heard about these 4-in-1 tapes...: Video Age offers the consumer the opportunity to buy 4 ...

30.2 Hi, do you carry "Fuck me Hard?": Best place to look for X-rated videos are your Mom-and-Pop ...

30.3 Can I get porn on laserdisc?: Sure. No sweat. Any large town or city should have a video ...

30.4 Can I get porn on CD-ROM?: Sure, but I don't know why you'd want to. I'll let Brad ...

30.5 I can get smut on my TV?!?: Well, maybe not *your* TV... It depends on where you are....

30.6 How about American satellite channels?: A big thanks to CMovieman for this info:...

30.7 Where can I find porn in Australia?: As discussed in Part 11, porn is legal throughout Australia, ...

30.8 So then what about my local Big Bob's House of Smut(tm)?: Depends on you and how you feel. Some people feel that in ...

30.9 Can I get porn in Atlanta, Georgia?: According my correspondents (Brad Williams, Harris Minter ...

30.9.1 Fantastic Video: Brad Williams says that for starters, try Fantastic Video,...

30.9.2 Video 2010: If you're interested in leaving town, try Video 2010 ...

30.9.3 9 1/2 Weeks: Harris mentions that a recent addition to the Atlanta ...

30.9.4 XXX Adult Video Showcase: The poster known as Chopped Liver tells me that another ...

30.10 Why was hardcore gone so long from Atlanta? I know I saw a bunch of peep shows and theatres there several years ago, and Atlanta is full of titty bars.: The reasons were many, and what I'm about to tell you is an over-...

30.11 Is there a Web based House of Smut?: Is the Pope Catholic? At this time, web based houses of smut ...

30.11.1 There are sooo many! How do I know which one to use?: Well, personally, I don't buy my tapes, so I have to go ...

30.11.2 But I don't have web access!: You can correspond with Blowfish by sending e-mail ...

31 Can I really get 100 movies for 5 bucks? Where would I put all the videotapes?: People often ask about the ads that appear in the back of ...

32 What are those annoying black dots for?: Ads for movies in the back of Hustler and things like that are ...

33 Snuff Flicks are real, right?: Uh, no. The following is from the alt.folklore.urban archive:...

34 How should I know what movies to rent?: Unfortunately, there is no easy solution, and the phrase your mileage ...

35 What kind of movies should I watch with my partner?: Ones that you like that don't make each other feel uncomfortable. ...

36 Are there "couples" directors to watch out for?: As with any visual medium, the director is the person held ...

36.1 Andrew Blake: Andrew Blake makes movies that are very artistic. Lots of ...

36.2 John Leslie: John Leslie, who directs for his own production company (under ...

36.3 Candida Royalle: Candida Royalle, a performer turned producer/director, now ...

36.4 Svetlana: For those who do not look for serious plotlines and acting in ...

36.5 Paul Thomas: Paul Thomas, who directs for Vivid almost exclusively, can make ...

37 Myths of Couples Porn: A lurker known as Cinemaniac offers this for your consideration:...

38 What is all this I keep hearing about "The Golden Age?": The following comes from Peter van Aarle's excellent web page (...

39 So tell me more about this Blockbuster video chain...: Well, this is from our good friend Harris Minter who has ...

39.1 Why are some of the movies I rent at Blockbuster different from the same movie I rent at "Joe's House of Video"? Is Mommy Blockbuster editing them?: Okay - you rented The Getaway at Joe's, and saw some pretty ...

39.2 Two versions?: Yep, and it's quite common. Virtually anything that's ...

39.3 Why multiple versions?: It was discovered way back that sometimes when a movie is ...

39.4 Once again, does Blockbuster pay the studios to cut out all the bad stuff?: Nope. Blockbuster didn't commission anything. They didn't need to....

39.5 Okay, okay, we've left porn to discuss mainstream films. I've seen a director's cut of "The Color of Night" at Blockbuster. Explain that one.....: Actually, we're discussing Blockbuster. Look on the box, ...

39.6 You mean that Blockbuster doesn't get special versions of videos?: I can think of exactly ONE video of which BB has an exclusive ...

40 Legal Issues: NOTICE: The information contained within this document, especially, is ...

40.1 Here in America, can I get this porno stuff legally?: Laws vary by country and by state. A common belief is that you ...

40.2 Can I get my smut in Europe?: Peter van Aarle tells me that the situation in Europe also ...

40.3 So am I out of luck if I am in England?: One of my operatives in the UK has this to say:...

40.4 What's the situation in Australia?: John Roda (fiend@nwamiga.apana.org.au), the thunder from ...

40.5 I am in America and I have some European tapes (with some "taboo" parts) and I am not sure how I can swap or sell them... I mean are they illegal?: Mail order specialists Blowfish, have this to say on the subject:...

40.6 What does that "made before July 3, 1995" sticker mean?: N.P. Trist tell me that it may very well mean the end of the ...

40.7 Why doesn't the creation of an adult video run afoul of laws against pimping and prostitution?: A HUGE thank you to N.P.Trist for doing the legal research on ...

40.8 Who are the "Erotic Eleven" and what does it have to do with Nina Hartley's ban from Canada?: Bobby Lilly, president Of CalACT (Californians Against ...

40.8.1 Is there a movie based on this event?: Funny you should ask! ;-) Peter van Aarle tells me: ...

40.9 Why is fisting illegal in the United States?: Well, it's not really illegal... but it is one of those things ...

40.10 So what can't I watch in America, the home of the free?: There are other 'controversial sexual practices' such as pissing,...

40.11 What's the deal with porn in Canada? Can I see some things or all things or what?: It depends upon where you are. In Canada, porn is a ...

40.12 How about the Australian porn laws? What are they like?: Craig (carlandc@zip.com.au) of Australia told the group: ...

40.13 You said something about "nuisance prosecutions." Could you clarify the illegality issue again?: The government cannot impose restrictions on what can be filmed. ...

41 Censorship: Patrick Santucci wrote this next section, I merely edited it. I think ...

41.1 Introduction: The topic of censorship and first amendment rights is vast ...

41.2 What is censorship?: Formally, censorship is prior restraint of communication based ...

41.3 What does the First Amendment have to do with it?: The first amendment to the U.S. constitution is the ...

41.4 So what has it got to do with alt.sex.movies?: The most direct violation of the first amendment is of ...

41.5 So what is actually illegal to watch/own/produce/sell?: Anything could be. Any expression whatever could be ...

41.6 Who are these censorious bastards? Lets go get 'em!: I'm glad you feel that way, even if I did write it myself....

41.6.1 Jesse Helms: Senator Helms is one of the loudest proponents of ...

41.6.2 Edwin Meese: Former US attorney General and he who commissioned the ...

41.6.3 Andrea Dworkin/Catherine MacKinnon: Impossible really to separate these two, except that Ms....

41.6.4 James Exon: Sponsor of the now famous Communications Decency Act ...

41.7 Am I on my own with sword and shield, or is anyone else in this with me?: Relax, there are at least as many good guys as bad. For starters,...

41.7.1 F.O.X.E (Fans of X-rated entertainment): FOXE is currently headed by Bill 'Bear' Margold, former ...

41.7.2 CAL-ACT (Californians Against Censorship Together): Cal-ACT is on the net! They have a WWW site of their own at:...

41.8 So how about the Dworkin/MacKinnon stuff already?: Saved it for last because I think it is the greatest threat to ...

43 Special Thanks Department: Special Thanks go to the following persons for contributing ...

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